Gun Balance in this mod

[Mazryonh 0]

When STALKER: SoC was first released, it was praised for its very realistic gunplay. Only a few shooters before SoC had implemented bullet ricochet (let alone for ALL of their bullet-firing weapons), and even fewer had ballistic physics (such as bullet drop) for every bullet-firing weapon. Soon after the initial release many reviewers complained about how "weak" many of the weapons were, since pistols were nearly ineffectual and enemies could absorb quite a few assault rifle bullets before going down. Quite a few weapons also suffered from "power creep" as well--such as the fact that when you got further into the game, there was often no point to using the older weapons--the 5.45mm weapons, for instance, were next to useless once the player had access to the 5.56mm weapons, the G36 renders the other 5.56mm rifles are useless except for their grenade launchers, etc.

 

While I'm glad that the AMK 1.4 mod has increased the damage of the weapons so that they are no longer as weak as they once were, I think in a way they went too far. I've had several instances where I've had 50% bullet resistance or more, and have still been killed in three hits by an MP5, a weapon well-known for its poor armour penetration in real life. Enemies often get instant headshots far too often, and some weapons (like the AS Val or the VSS Vintorez) are much too powerful for no real reason.

 

My more specific criticisms of this mod's gun balance are as follows:

 

1) In the version of AMK 1.4 I am using, 9x39mm weapons can kill ANY human NPC in ONE hit, no matter the distance, the armour the target wears, or the location hit, including the Marked One. Of course, this is patently absurd--in real life, the AS Val has a firing rate of 900 rpm, which of course would be completely unnecessary if it had the performance level depicted in this game.

 

I would suggest that 9x39mm weapons be returned to their original function, which is to be short-ranged weapons, about 30% to 40% more powerful than 5.56mm or 5.45mm weapons and better armour penetration, but with decreasing damage with increasing range (aside from the SP-5 version) due to its subsonic speed, and more bullet drop for the same reason. 9x39mm weapons should not supplant their more common cousins the 5.45mm weapons, but complement them.

 

2) Shotgun slugs and darts are completely useless in 1.4. They are too inaccurate, don't deal enough damage, and fire too slowly for the damage they do. They are also worthless against even the tough mutants (slugs were originally for big game hunting, mind you), dealing even less damage to them than buckshot. This makes no sense when you read the ingame descriptions of tough mutants like the pseudogiant, who thanks to its thick skin and internal carapace shouldn't be affected much by buckshot--it would have to have its armour pierced by large rounds like shotgun slugs in order to inflict much damage, aside from using explosives.

 

Then there is the matter of how inaccurate shotgun slugs or darts are. Even when using shotgun ironsights, I've missed quite a few shots while using slugs or darts, even at 50 meters or less from a target. This is unacceptable given that shotguns either have a low magazine capacity or else cause a lot of muzzle jump, requiring you to wait before you can bring the ironsights back on target. This means that if you miss your first shot with a slug or dart, you're left very open to enemies who can fill you full of assault rifle bullet holes.

 

I would suggest that slugs and darts be very accurate when ironsights are used, have a good chance of causing enemies to go into their "stunning animations," and kill lightly-armoured NPCs in 2 or 3 hits (but never more than 4 for the exo-armoured enemies). Darts would be better for more accurate long-range shooting and piercing heavy armour, but deal less raw damage (especially against mutants). Slugs are great for killing light- and medium-armoured enemies (bandit jackets, leather jackets, and Stalker/Merc suits count as light armour, Military/Duty/Heavy freedom suits count as medium armour) and tougher mutants like Pseudogiants, Bloodsuckers and Chimeras, but are less useful against heavily armoured enemies (those in SKAT-9M suits or Exoskeletons) and more shorter ranged.

 

3) Guns with 3 types of ammunition don't use them very well. In AMK 1.4 there really is no perceivable difference between the "armour piercing," "long ranged," and "cheaper modification" versions of 9x39mm or 7.62x54mm ammo. It would make more sense if the armour-piercing variants did more damage (against human NPCs but not against most mutants) and bypassed more armour, but was shorter-ranged and less accurate than the "long range variant." The "long range" variant is the most accurate and travels the furthest, but only does average damage. The "cheaper modification" should perform the worst, being the least accurate, the least damaging (maybe a damage penalty of 20% to 30% would be appropriate for 9x39mm ammo, and 40% to 50% for the 7.62x54mm ammo), and wears out your gun most quickly. An older STALKER mod called "STALKER Redux" did have "corrosive ammunition" that caused nonstandard ammunition types (most commonly the armour-piercing variants) to wear out the guns firing them more quickly--such a feature would be welcome in this mod.

 

4) The marksmanship of NPCs don't seem to fit their characters. Bandits shoot just as well as trained military soldiers, aside from the fact that they carry different weapons. It would make much more sense if Bandits and Rookie Loners were the least skilled at shooting, emptying their magazines in the general direction of the enemy rather than taking aim and using the semi-automatic and burst-fire settings on their guns. More experienced stalkers and military types would use semi-automatic at long range, burst-fire at medium range, and only resort to fully-automatic when at close range. I find it funny that despite the "2-bullets-in-one-hole" burst fire setting of the AN-94 that became its main gimmick, no human NPC uses one in this manner, or the burst firing settings on any other weapon. Even NPCs equipped with scoped guns that aren't specifically locked to semi-automatic fire never use anything other than fully automatic fire. Tying different weapon accuracy levels to NPC skill levels would also be nice--right now the rookie/experienced/veteran/expert label under an NPC's name doesn't actually affect their skill with firearms at all.

 

5) Most gunshot wounds should cause NPCs to lay on the floor and bleed out more often, instead of being killed instantly. This is most often the case in real life as well--barring being hit with high-caliber rounds (such as shotgun slugs or hits from .50 caliber or 7.62x54mm bullets) or hits to the head, heart, neck, or spine, most victims of gunshot wounds usually fall down after being "dropped" from their gunshot wounds and bleed to death--they are not often killed instantly barring the conditions I mentioned before. If there was a way to make NPCs shot with pistol-caliber or assault rifle-caliber rounds drop down and bleed to death more often than getting killed instantly by bodyshots or limbshots, I'd welcome it. Bleeding damage should be increased as well--even in AMK 1.4 it's nothing more than a temporary annoyance even at the most serious levels, whereas in real life major hemorrhages don't stop on their own and must be treated as medical emergencies.

 

6) NPCs should use their grenade launchers and scopes. I believe a youtube user named xStream0rus figured out how to make NPCs use grenade launchers; a link to a demonstration vid can be found here:

 

On a related note, NPCs using scoped guns that are not locked into semi-automatic fire should really take single shots more often. The Mercenaries at the Mercenary camp in Wild Territory often use guns with scopes, but never actually fire semi-automatically.

 

In addition, grenades launched from grenade launchers (not the thrown kind) should have a larger blast radius than they do now (maybe a 1 meter radius would be appropriate, with a 2.5 radius for the VOG-25P grenade), though not as large as thrown grenades have. In AMK 1.4 they only do any damage if they directly hit an NPC or mutant, which is not realistic.

 

7) Post-hit effects should not be chained together, and should not cause the Marked One to drop a pistol. I can't begin to count the number of times when an enemy got lucky with a burst of bullets which made the Marked One dizzy, and then just kept pouring it on so that the dizzy animations kept looping into one another, making it impossible for me to shoot straight before the Marked One was killed. This also occurs with some mutants as well, specifically the Burer. I've made another thread about this already. A solution would be to make the Marked One immune to post-hit effects for 5 seconds after being affected with one, so they cannot chain together and make it impossible to shoot straight.

 

The reason I'm arguing for post-hit effects to not make the Marked One drop his pistol is because you're already in deep enough trouble if something or someone causes you to drop your rifle. Leaving a player helpless by forcing the Marked One to drop his pistol is overkill--players will have a hard enough time saving their lives with just a pistol as it is.

 

8) The random hit removal function should be removed or deactivated. In other words, Vanilla STALKER has a function that makes bullet hits just "not count" and be treated by the engine as misses. The likelihood of this happening is controlled by your difficulty level, with easier difficulties making it more likely, while higher difficulties making this less likely. Hits to the head are not subject to this, nor are hits that take place lower than the value (expressed in meters) indicated by the hit_probability_max_dist variable. To my knowledge and playtesting, AMK 1.4 still has this function, which causes bullets to miss when for all intents and purposes they should have hit.

 

Deactivating the function is relatively simple; simply editing the hit_probability_max_dist variable (found in the weapons.ltx file in the gamedata/config/weapons directory) to read a high value like 300 or 1000 will effectively make the random hit removal function only take place at ranges where enemy NPCs are not even rendered, so it never actually activates.

 

9) Armour should be less useless against bullets. I'm glad that AMK made it so that even a lowly bandit with an AKs-74u can be a lethal threat (even though technically he shouldn't have gotten his hands on a special forces weapon in the first place), but beyond a certain level, with good armour and a high bullet resistance stat (such as 55% or higher), it shouldn't be impossible for the Marked One to be left near death or at 1/4 health after absorbing a full magazine from an MP5 or an AK-74. If an Exoskeleton couldn't absorb that kind of damage, I very much doubt GSC would have made it so you can't sprint while wearing one. I don't know whether or not AMK 1.4 has the maximum bullet resistance capped at 50%, or has a 3 bullet limit for the Marked One's health, or something else, but I'd really expect to be more resistant to bullets after getting good armour and artifacts.

 

It also doesn't make much sense from a realistic point of view. People using armour, especially military soldiers, are quick to discard it or use something better if it proves ineffectual against the weapons it's meant to face. In short, armour is worn because armour works. I find it quite odd that they go down from five 5.45x39mm hits, even if they're all in the chest.

 

A possible solution would be to tone down the hit_power variables of most weapons, but not to the point where it starts taking most of your rifle magazine to kill a single NPC. In my view, only the RPG missiles, the Gauss Rifle, certain anomalies, a knife stab from behind, and a well-placed grenade should kill the Marked One or human NPCs in a single hit. I don't mind if the Marked One dies in three assault rifle shots when wearing a leather or bandit jacket, but I do mind when I'm wearing a SEVA suit and am wearing artifacts that grant an additional 25% bullet resistance (for total of 65%). In addition, Exoskeleton-armoured NPCs aren't that dangerous when you can take them down with pretty much the same amount of bullets as you would an unarmoured bandit.

 

10) Headshots should be made known to the player with a visual and audio cue. I don't mean something like the special icon that displays a skull with a bullet going through it in Counterstrike or Metal Gear Online, I meant a graphical indication on the mutant or NPC and a unique sound effect that plays when the player or human NPCs score a headshot so we know that one was scored. There are plenty of gory sound effects on the web that could be used to simulate the noise of a skull being cored by a bullet.

 

As for the graphical indication, two games I have played had a special graphical effect when the player scores a headshot, Postal 2 and Bet On Soldier: Bloodsport. In Postal 2, there was a spray of white and red particles (to represent blood and skull fragments) that erupted from another player's head in multiplayer whenever a headshot was scored. In Bet On Soldier, a headshot was indicated by a bunch of blood-coloured decals flying out of the character's skull (not only droplet shaped, to indicate the pieces of flesh and bone coming out of the exit wound). Something like this would be more useful to tell players they've scored a headshot (or died by a headshot in singleplayer), since NPCs are no longer flung back 15 feet from being killed with a headshot, as they were in Vanilla STALKER.

 

Is there a way to make it so that only suits with helmets (such as the Berill5M armoured suit, the SKAT-9M and SKAT-10M suits, along with the exoskeleton) provide some protection against headshots? It would make sense to me if, while wearing the first three types of armour in the parentheses, you got to apply half the armour's bullet resistance value against the wound. Exoskeletons worn by NPCs could make it so that they are no longer affected by headshot bonuses--it would make the grenade launchers have more purpose if they were the only way to reliably kill tough opponents like these.

 

The aforementioned STALKER Redux mod claimed to have a locational damage system that even took into account whether or not the location you hit on an NPC, or where an NPC's bullet hit you, was actually armoured or not. You can read about this interesting feature I think could have been included in AMK in more detail here: STALKER Redux

 

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On the other hand, I think there is another way bullet-resistance artifacts can be handled. Instead of simply reducing the damage bullets do to the Marked One, they instead are calculated separately from the armour and represent the percentage chance that a bullet fired at them will harmlessly deflect, represented by an anomaly flash (much like the Burer can block bullets and cause them to flash harmlessly). Expert Stalkers or Monolith soldiers having this effect would definitely make fighting them more interesting, especially the Monolith so as to represent how they have been touched by the Zone and are no longer playing by the rules. A flat 25% deflection chance could be good for expert stalkers, with a 30% chance for most monolith soldiers very good to make the player fear these Zone-touched warriors. Larger projectiles like shotgun slugs/darts being subject to only half the chance for deflection would also give a player more reason to use that ammo type, and of course it would not protect against launched or thrown grenades.

 

One final note: making it so that you can't stack transmuted artifacts of the same type or general class together would also help balance the game. Right now there's nothing stopping a player from making four "Elder Glassbeads" artifacts and getting 80% bullet resistance from those artifacts together. Tweaking the game so the Marked One cannot equip transmuted artifacts from the same class would work--such as if the Marked One tries to equip two Elder Glassbeads, or one Elder Glassbeads and one Ancient Glassbeads, or one Tears of Electra and Tears of Fire, etc., the game will not let him equip them. Only one of each transmuted artifact class (Glassbeads, Porcupine, Tears, Kolobok, Scale, etc.) can be equipped at once.

 

I'd appreciate it if the mod were better balanced along these lines. Gun combat is one of the biggest parts of this game, and making it more fun and less frustrating would go a long way into making this mod more enjoyable and popular.

[No.09 0]

I understand your point of view. It's nice you took the time to write such a detailed reply. I've added a few observations of my own. I'd like to make clear that STALKER was and is an arcade shooter. Fancy effects like bullets ricochets doesn't make it realistic. Games as old as Delta force had better ballistics than the ones implemented in STALKER. Good ballistics make it hard to hit reliably at range, so it seems popular with modern game titles to simplify them as much as possible.

 

It's been a while since I've played AMK 1.4, but from what I remember I agree that at least some weapons seemed too effective. AS Val and VSS Vintorez use the 9x39 ammo which is supposed to be really effective at penetrating armor and delivering maximum damage to soft tissue. It certainly is more effective than both 5.56x45 or 5.45x39 ammo.

 

Comments on your specific points:

1. Killing with one shot every single time, no matter where the bullet hits, is indeed silly, but these weapon systems and its bullets were designed to try and achieve that. The SP-6 surely does pierce kevlar vests all the way to level 3a standard. Level 4 type of armor is probably a different matter. Tho once the armor is pierced the SP-6 rounds are designed to effectively wound the enemy combatant.

In real life, in a combat situation, you don't do headshots at 50 meters with any kind of realiabilty, therefore it is very usefull to have a high rpm to quickly put enough bullets on your target to effectively hit it and kill it, no matter the weapon type you are using. In CQB this can be crucial since the human body can take quite some damage before being disabled, so an enemy combatant can return fire if it is not put down quickly enough. Therefore a high rate of fire can be a life saver and is not an indication of the effectiveness of the ammunition used.

 

The maximum effective range of the 9x39 is about 300+ meters, which is actually close to the effective range of 5.56x45 and 5.45x39 ammunition, which lies at about 300-400 meters.

IIRC at 300 m the 9x39 will still deliver more damage on the target than a 5.56x45 and 5.45x39 ammunition will be able to. Its penetrating values (SP-6) are pretty impressive. At normal combat ranges in STALKER the 9x39 (both SP-5 and SP-6) should be a clearly superior ammunition type, imho. Also, I think it is important to note that the 5.45x39 is generally more effective in both piercing armor and at damaging soft tissue than the 5.56x45. So the difference between 9x39 and 5.45x39 should be smaller than 9x39 and 5.56x45.

 

2. Yes, I remember slugs and darts as being ineffective in AMK. Both types of ammo should be effective when dealing with armored opponents. Tho make no mistakes, someone with an assault rifle will have the edge on you, no questions about that. That's how it is.

I've never fired slugs and darts, but from what I hear and read they're not extremely accurate, but probably more than what is set for them in AMK 1.4.

Slugs should be pretty deadly against all types of targets. Their sheer mass makes them effective. Even when armor stops them they will cause significant blunt trauma. Darts on the other hand are the ultimate anti armor weapon. I think the damage they cause is mostly dependant on type of dart and how much shock damage do they cause. If darts are fired at very high speed and fragment in soft tissue they could be really deadly.

 

3. With 9x39 it seems the cheaper PAB-9 round never went into production.

Long range ammunition is usually specialised for snipers. It does retain killing power, but with higher precision at range. Higher precision does usually translate into better energy retention, which should help with achieveing a longer range. Possibly causing more damage on target.

I think a good way to set things is to use the normal ammunition as standard and then work from there for specialised ammunition.

The percentages you suggest seem way too extreme. While the common (MG) ammunition in 7.62x54 can be rather innacurate and generally inconsistent it is not that much weaker than an AP or long range version. Especially at ranges we have in STALKER, which are generally more or less CQB. So the difference shouldn't be so extreme.

Barrel wear depends on the characteristics of the ammunition. Usually it depends a lot on the muzzle velocity of the ammunition that is used. Higher velocity equals more barrel wear. AP rounds have often higher mass and lower muzzle velocity so I don't think they should produce more wear than a standard round. I think the wear should be more pronounced in various high power pistol rounds that increase the muzzle velocity.

 

4. The reality of things is that often „bandits“ fire their guns, for training or fighting, more often which can lead to them being more proficient than the average soldier. I've read some interesting articles about this.

I don't know how much can be set for the AI. I've tried changing order of fire modes but I didn't notice any difference. So I take it as a limitation of the Ai.

 

5. I've increased the bleeding factor and it worked quite well. At times I had to fire only a single shot at the enemy and they would bleed out and die. Sometimes it is silly tho because they don't seem to treat their wounds, even if they are very slight. So you shoot someone, run away and he'll simply die if the bleeding is severe enough.

 

6. For grenades, either hand grenades or those launched from a grenade launcher, the effective killing and wounding radius is too small iirc. There's accurate info available on the effective and maximum shrapnel range of these weapons. I know I've increased them and the results were very good for me.

 

7. Oh, I hate the stun effect. I've dramatically minimised the stun effect because it's not very realistic imho. The lack of the stun effect makes for much harder CQB battles tho, as it should be.

 

8. Yeah, the random miss is a pretty silly feature.

 

9. The AKSU-74 is not a dedicated special forces weapon.

Even with good armor there's only so much a human body can take and a full clip (30 rounds) should incapacitate you. Body armor tries to prevent fatal injury, it does not turn you into a tank. So you'll feel every hit from whatever caliber, even when wearing an armor plate.

 

I've set up the hit values and bullet properties so that you need some hits with 5.56x45 or 5.45x39 to take the enemy down straight away, but to kill it you don't need as much since it will bleed after being hit. So at times I need only one hit and then let him bleed out. It's far from a perfect solution, but given the limitation it works ok for me.

The artefacts are quite a problem tho, they can make you nearly invulnerable the way I've set up AMK guns so I simply changed those that enabled higher resistance to damage to some other function.

 

10. The real life headshots I've seen don't really happen like that. You have some material spourting out, but it's unlike what is portrayed in games. I don't miss such a feature and think is ok as it is.

The damage model in STALKER is rather primitive from what I've seen. The armor of the suit covers the entire body, I think. The only thing you can set is damage values for various parts of the body, but is generic and not linked to specific suits.

 

 

Anyway, all of the above is just my view. I enjoy playing AMK, but I've heavily edited most of the gun related statistics, including some character properties. You can perform all of these changes by yourself and play it. For me that's the fun part in STALKER/AMK, nothing prevents me for setting things up the way I like.

 

Cheers,

No.09